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Cities Enticed by Pay-if-You-Save Energy Deals

New York Times -- WHEN the city of Brea, Calif., about 25 miles southeast of Los Angeles, set out to reduce its carbon emissions and save money on energy costs, the challenge was the same faced by many other cities nationwide: allocating the funds to pay for the program.

Finding projects to make city buildings more energy efficient was far easier. So the city turned to a form of financing that has become common among government agencies at all levels: an energy-savings performance contract that requires no upfront costs and allows the city to pay for the project over time using the savings on utility bills.

“There is no other way we could have undertaken this scope of project in this efficient a manner or time frame,” said Charlie View, Brea’s director of public works.

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Submitted Oct 24, 2012 By: LetemEatCake

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1OILMAN Champion Author Alabama Posts:2,071 Points:157,275 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Oct 25, 2012 2:40:34 PM Ignore 1OILMAN Report Abuse So they pay for the program with the savings. Is not that like moving money from the left pocket to the right pocket and then saying how much better the right pocket is? Where did they save money? Sounds like the Obama plan for stimulating the economy with the savings from the wars. Only problem is the money was borrowed. Thus the spending continues on borrowed money. And deeper we sink while the president demands praise for his higher calling. Imagine that.
ibhenry Champion Author San Diego Posts:1,536 Points:456,445 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Oct 25, 2012 11:53:30 AM Ignore ibhenry Report Abuse They should scale down to homeowners to install solar.....
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,934 Points:751,010 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Oct 25, 2012 11:05:06 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse "Or you can do what they are doing in Las Vegas. Customers trying to conserve electricity to lower thier bills have just been met with the Nevada Power compnay requesting a 9.8 million dollar hike to replace the money the power company lost from everyone conserving. Yep, going green really pays off." ========================== Great point RENEGADEGAS!
bston Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:1,810 Points:640,325 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Oct 25, 2012 12:37:21 AM Ignore bston Report Abuse Not everyone will get on board with this.
PDQBlues Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,064 Points:1,446,375 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 10:50:16 PM Ignore PDQBlues Report Abuse leemun: We did that on our campus a few years ago. The new lighting is amazing--brighter, and doesn't burn out as often--less power used, runs cooler. And with newer LED street lights, it's possible to have this same savings for cities, too.
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:51,279 Points:2,141,975 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 11:17:36 AM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse On Oct 24, 2012 9:56:56 AM, GT3186 wrote: >These projects NEVER pay for themselves... Just more taxpayer money >flush down the crapper! My experience is that the companies that offer performance contracts GUARANTEE that energy savings will result. It's "pay if you save." No save, no pay. Nobody would sign up for them otherwise. Private industry does the same and they have much sharper pencils than the average Government bureaucrat. [Edited by: Sneakers55 at 10/24/2012 11:21:39 AM EST]
CVA19 Champion Author Salem Posts:2,393 Points:607,950 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 10:56:56 AM Ignore CVA19 Report Abuse These projects NEVER pay for themselves... Just more taxpayer money flush down the crapper!
leemun Champion Author Utah Posts:5,528 Points:1,038,400 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 10:08:05 AM Ignore leemun Report Abuse We did that on our campus a few years ago. The new lighting is amazing--brighter, and doesn't burn out as often--less power used, runs cooler.
csblesson Champion Author Texas Posts:1,806 Points:351,925 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 8:54:24 AM Ignore csblesson Report Abuse Good news!
bbchevy Veteran Author Ontario Posts:345 Points:307,290 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 8:40:11 AM Ignore bbchevy Report Abuse Sure they will.
AVKZ All-Star Author Kalamazoo Posts:836 Points:291,975 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 8:29:42 AM Ignore AVKZ Report Abuse Time will tell if this works in the long run.
doeslayersr Champion Author Illinois Posts:9,106 Points:870,055 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 8:23:57 AM Ignore doeslayersr Report Abuse renegadegas - good observation and excellent comment!
George0446 Veteran Author Massachusetts Posts:496 Points:230,145 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 8:16:58 AM Ignore George0446 Report Abuse This is nothing but good management of sacred tax dollars. Let's have more of this kind of thinking!
gs7101 Champion Author San Antonio Posts:5,518 Points:387,695 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 7:11:06 AM Ignore gs7101 Report Abuse Yeah, right!
el_fr Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:3,332 Points:743,725 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 6:31:05 AM Ignore el_fr Report Abuse There is no free lunch
MImusicman Champion Author Michigan Posts:1,868 Points:406,700 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 6:30:52 AM Ignore MImusicman Report Abuse Most savings are overestimated
leeac Champion Author Ohio Posts:1,591 Points:432,930 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 6:22:28 AM Ignore leeac Report Abuse This is innovative and smart.
APlus Champion Author San Antonio Posts:3,913 Points:990,470 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 5:01:48 AM Ignore APlus Report Abuse When does the normal commercial or residential living in an apartment or home get to do this - no money upfront, no interest just pay back from savings?
7SPEEDY7 Champion Author Flint Posts:1,281 Points:604,475 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 4:21:26 AM Ignore 7SPEEDY7 Report Abuse Interesting!!
TIGERPAW46 Champion Author Florida Posts:7,120 Points:1,353,810 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:48:09 AM Ignore TIGERPAW46 Report Abuse In the 1970 we had an energy shortage. I submitted a suggestion to the USAF base where I was assigned to turn off the lights in the empty offices at lunch, also on sunny days to open the blinds & use fewer lights since they had multiple controls. The reply was it cost more to replace the bulbs due to increased wear from the surge turning them off for even 1 hr. the other answer was the lighting was calculated by engineers for what was needed sunny or cloudy. (So no one is smart enough to turn off half or some of the lights on sunny days?). Anyway 3 or so mo later an order came down from Command Headquaters to turn off lights if out of the office for 15 min or more to save money & Energy & someone else was awarded a few Thousand Dollars for saving the USAF X amount of Money. HA Ha! Typical Crap.
TBONE3 Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:8,741 Points:1,975,675 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:43:43 AM Ignore TBONE3 Report Abuse Thought provoking article!
Darwin00 All-Star Author Mississippi Posts:829 Points:269,560 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:37:01 AM Ignore Darwin00 Report Abuse Good idea.
KrsnaDragon Champion Author Montreal Posts:2,402 Points:529,575 Joined:Nov 2011	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:29:57 AM Ignore KrsnaDragon Report Abuse An article about consumers working together to save on gas would have been more interesting.
gmcgas Champion Author Atlanta Posts:5,948 Points:1,713,195 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:29:15 AM Ignore gmcgas Report Abuse going to get ya no matter what.
OHMS Champion Author Orange County Posts:13,712 Points:1,690,905 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:28:32 AM Ignore OHMS Report Abuse broke cities are easily enticed
ItisAJeepThing Champion Author Tucson Posts:19,742 Points:2,149,630 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:25:44 AM Ignore ItisAJeepThing Report Abuse We can get solar systems installed for no up front cost and then just pay for the electricity that we actually use.
Prodaddy Champion Author Houston Posts:8,375 Points:1,894,210 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:24:36 AM Ignore Prodaddy Report Abuse I don't like it at all
btex49 Champion Author Austin Posts:2,715 Points:530,105 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:21:34 AM Ignore btex49 Report Abuse Interesting... I am interested in seeing if it works in reality in the long run.
REVLAW Champion Author San Antonio Posts:10,430 Points:2,006,270 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:20:06 AM Ignore REVLAW Report Abuse Sounds like "creative financing" and "smoke and mirrors accounting". Often proves to just be BS.
rd2000 Champion Author Florida Posts:3,566 Points:686,020 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:19:41 AM Ignore rd2000 Report Abuse Let's see it up here
vulcan96 Champion Author Ohio Posts:26,896 Points:3,102,700 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:18:49 AM Ignore vulcan96 Report Abuse seems at least one project paid off as advertized....
HA4CNN Champion Author Toronto Posts:5,614 Points:1,541,440 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:17:36 AM Ignore HA4CNN Report Abuse More bureaucratic scams.
probedude2 Champion Author Akron Posts:12,548 Points:2,379,230 Joined:Jun 2003	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:15:37 AM Ignore probedude2 Report Abuse Spending lots of money to save very little money: The CA Way!
Mowerman08 Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:4,755 Points:1,216,270 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:12:20 AM Ignore Mowerman08 Report Abuse Being a govt. body, any savings will be spent on some other needless project, that's the CA way.
RENEGADEGAS Champion Author Missouri Posts:14,906 Points:1,590,250 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:11:24 AM Ignore RENEGADEGAS Report Abuse Or you can do what they are doing in Las Vegas. Customers trying to conserve electricity to lower thier bills have just been met with the Nevada Power compnay requesting a 9.8 million dollar hike to replace the money the power company lost from everyone conserving. Yep, going green really pays off.
DirtDauber Champion Author San Antonio Posts:6,776 Points:1,626,485 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:06:50 AM Ignore DirtDauber Report Abuse Most of them are so broke, and even over time they are taking a big risk.
JohnofGB Champion Author Flint Posts:5,416 Points:1,095,220 Joined:Feb 2010	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:05:29 AM Ignore JohnofGB Report Abuse With all of the professionals that civil service have, they need outsiders to tell them how to save? I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale.
kgbellman Champion Author Ann Arbor Posts:2,703 Points:729,890 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:04:52 AM Ignore kgbellman Report Abuse Let's see it up here
Z51Corvette Champion Author Austin Posts:8,480 Points:1,670,195 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Oct 24, 2012 1:00:03 AM Ignore Z51Corvette Report Abuse Sure they are!